Hon Christopher Finlayson

Hon TAU HENARE (National) to the Attorney-General: What recent announcements have been made about the review of the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General) : Yesterday Cabinet, the Māori Party, and iwi leaders agreed to address the major grievances associated with the 2004 Act, including removing Crown ownership in favour of a non-ownership model, restoring that fundamental human right of access to justice, and providing for the recognition of uninvestigated customary title.

Hon Tau Henare: Will New Zealanders notice much of a difference under the replacement legislation?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: New Zealanders who were largely unaffected by the 2004 Act will notice very little difference, as public access and existing use rights are protected. However, Māori, who were so disproportionately affected by the 2004 Act, will notice significant improvements, as their fundamental legal rights will be upheld and they will be able to go to the courts or negotiate with the Crown for the recognition of basic property rights, including those to customary title.

Hon Tau Henare: How have negotiations with the Māori Party and iwi leaders progressed over the last 19 months?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Negotiations have at all times been principled and, indeed, very pragmatic. I thank the iwi for the hospitality and courtesy shown to me during the many hui that I attended. I also acknowledge the constructive and invaluable contribution of the Māori Party. I single out the contribution of Mrs Turia, whose courage and conviction throughout this process, and, indeed, since 2003, have been an inspiration. In moving forward, New Zealand owes Mrs Turia a great debt.

Hon David Parker: In what way does vesting the foreshore and seabed as public space give any group more or fewer rights than vesting it as Crown land?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Vesting the foreshore in the way that is proposed removes the “weeping sore”, as the Prime Minister called it, of absolute vesting in the Crown, and provides a staging post so that individual iwi, or hapū in some circumstances, will be able to investigate customary title.

Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very specific. I asked how anyone gets more or fewer rights as a consequence of the change. The Minister did not address that question.

Mr SPEAKER: I invite the Minister just to focus specifically on the issue raised, because one could perhaps imply certain things from the Minister’s answer. As that might be risky, the Minister should just make very clear what he means in relation to that.

Hon Trevor Mallard: I think you mean “infer” certain things.

Mr SPEAKER: I thank the honourable member.

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: The point of the matter is that it will still be the obligation of an iwi that is unable to conclude satisfactory negotiations to prove certain things to a tribunal, so at the end of the day the onus of proof will still be on iwi in that respect.

Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question asked what the extra rights or fewer rights are, and that still has not been answered.

Mr SPEAKER: The Minister has given a further answer, and there are further supplementary questions available. This is question No. 1, and the member could ask exactly the same question again if he is not satisfied. But I think the Minister has given a further answer on that specific point. It may not have satisfied the member, but it was an attempt to answer it.

Hon David Parker: Does vesting the foreshore and seabed as public space, rather than Crown land, give any claimant group more or fewer rights?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: I would have thought it was self-evident from my previous answer that there is no change in respect of the position that must be adopted by iwi who make a claim or have to negotiate with the Crown.

David Garrett: Is it correct that under the proposed legislation the Crown will be able, after negotiation, to grant iwi customary title, and having secured that title will iwi be able to grant coastal permits and resource consents, instead of the local council?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Yes, and no.

Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Does the Minister accept that the same legal test should be applied in direct negotiations as will have to be applied by claimants in the courts?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Yes.

David Garrett: Which parts of the New Zealand coastline, if any, will not be subject to the grant of customary title under which iwi will effectively control activities along it, including reclamation, the construction and removal of structures, etc.?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Huge amounts.